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The religious view of life
can be very intolerant:

"This ( my, my group's ) way
is ordained by God,

Obey us,
   because we represent God."


There has been a widespread belief that only the RC persecuted those who dared to think differently.

Protestant reformers were equally intolerant.

After all, if you think "God" has led you to correct errors,
are you likely to be tolerant of those who disagree with you ?


Quite logically, you are more likely to see anyone who differs from you as "hindering the Will of God";

and the more you focus & immerse yourself in "God's work",
the stronger that conviction will grow.








Michael Servetus.

Spanish polymath.

Burnt alive at the stake in Calvin's Protestant Geneva,
27 Oct 1553



Michael Servetus (aka Miguel Servet or Miguel Serveto )
was the first European to describe the function of pulmonary circulation.

His interests included mathematics, astronomy and meteorology, geography,
human anatomy, medicine and pharmacology,
as well as jurisprudence,
and the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages.
He had been educated in Latin, Greek & Hebrew.

In 1528, Servetus traveled through Germany and Italy with Quintana, who was then Charles V's ( RC ) confessor in the imperial retinue.

He remained a Christian,
he just didn't agree with everything.


His honest questioning led to a horrible death at the hands of his fellow believers.


Unitarians often regard Servetus as the first (modern) Unitarian martyr.
Servetus influenced the beginnings of the Unitarian movement in Poland and Transylvania.


Other non-trinitarian groups, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians and Oneness Pentecostalism, also claim Servetus as a spiritual ancestor.









James Madison (1751 - 1836):
( US President)

"The purpose of separation of church and state
is to keep forever from these shores
the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe
in blood for centuries."







Why do you emphasise that clergy have special responsibility ?


"Devout people are trained to rely on their priest / minister.

They are seen to be in a special relationship with the Divine.

They are thought to be experts in what they teach.


Any teacher of anything has an obligation to teach what is correct

& to be informed properly on the subject matter,

including facts that might cause thought & re-assessment."









New reformation Leaving





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Hans Denck,
and many more :

a poignant reminder

of religious authority.

Quotes :

"..... I sing because I’m happy, I sing because I’m free,
For His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me.

“Let not your heart be troubled,” His tender word I hear,
And resting on His goodness, I lose my doubts and fears;
Though by the path He leadeth, but one step I may see;
His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me;
His eye is on the sparrow, and I know He watches me....."

".....God will take care of you,
Through every day, o’er all the way;

He will take care of you,
God will take care of you.

Through days of toil when heart doth fail,
God will take care of you;
When dangers fierce your path assail,
God will take care of you.....

From 2 popular Evangelical Hymns
Both by Civilla D. Martin ( 1905 , 1904 )

End of quotes

------

Hans Denck ( c. 1495 – November 27, 1527 ),

is a very minor footnote in the history of the stuggle to escape religious domination.

Sadly, it is still a stuggle for some people today.


He enrolled at University of Ingolstadt when he was seventeen years old and graduated two years later with a bachelor's degree; fluent in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew.

In his first job, he undertook the editing of a three-volume Greek dictionary.

In September 1523 he became headmaster of St. Sebald's school in Nuremburg.
He married a young woman of the city and they had a child.

He was settling into a quiet and respectable life, but for one small problem.........


In January 1525 Sebald Behaim, one of three artists
on trial for making "unsound remarks" concerning baptism and communion,
mentioned that he had conversed with Denck on these matters.

The city court of Nuremberg demanded an explanation for his "odd behaviour."

Hans replied in writing:
I confess that I am a poor soul, subject to every weakness of body and spirit.
For some time I thought I had faith, but I have come to see that it was a false faith.
It was a faith that could not overcome my spiritual poverty, my inclinations to sin, my weaknesses and my sickness.
Instead of that, the more I polished and adorned myself on the outside (with my supposed faith) the worse became my spiritual sickness on the inside. . . .

Now I see clearly that I cannot keep on in this unbelief before God,
so I say: Yes Lord!
In the name of the Almighty God whom I fear from the bottom of my heart,
I want to believe.
Help me to believe.


For the above statement, the city council decided that Hans Denck must be expelled from Nuremburg.

On January 21, 1525, they cast him from the city for the rest of his life,
with orders not to come closer than ten miles to it, on pain of death.

They confiscated his property to support his wife and child who had to stay behind.

And so, he found himself alone and homeless,
in the dead of winter with nothing but the clothes on his back


-- and the inner conviction that he was doing what was right.


He went to Augsburg and from there he fled to Strasbourg in 1526 .
He was also expelled from there, and after wandering in Southern Germany and Switzerland he found refuge in Basel.
After attending the Martyrs' Synod in Augsburg, he returned to Basel where he died in 1527 of bubonic plague.


-----

It is important to note that he just couldn't believe some aspects of "standard" theology.
He had not renounced all religion.


He became an Anabaptist.

( Anabaptists disagreed with both the Roman Catholic church and the Lutheran reformers,
tracing their origins to an earlier reformer,
the Czech priest and master of Charles University in Prague,
Jan Hus ( sometimes anglicised as John Huss ) who was burned alive at the stake in 1415.)

-----

Today we have a huge number of small church groupings who have some points of difference with every other denomination.

Every minister and every member of all these groups should give thanks every day to the Enlightenment
and the secularisation of government that it promotes.

Otherwise the fates of Hans Denck, Jan Hus, Felix Manz ( see below ),
Michael Servetus and many others ( see last section )
( very sincere, educated, thoughtful Christians )
would be theirs also.




So, if there is a Loving God,
( those hymns are Bible based )
why did He not foresee
( or even just see the beginings of this )

Why not act to correct these evils
inflicted UPON His sincere, dedicated, prayerful, "God guided", followers
BY His sincere, dedicated, prayerful, "God guided" followers ?
??
???


Felix Manz (c. 1498 – 5 January 1527)

Manz was taken by boat onto the River Limmat.
His hands were bound and pulled behind his knees and a pole was placed between them.
He was executed by drowning in Lake Zürich on the Limmat.

His "crime" ?
His belief in adult baptism disagreed with Zwingli, (1 January 1484 – 11 October 1531 )
a leader of the Reformation in Switzerland and pastor of the Grossmunster in Zurich.

While Zwingli insisted on the right to disagree with the RC,
he was NOT prepared to tolerate those who disagreed with him.

( Baptism rituals existed before Christianity.
According to the Bible,
which all of these groups claimed to be "God's Word",
Jesus was baptised as an adult.)

On 7 March 1526, the Zürich council, following Zwingli's "God ordained" teachings,
had passed an edict that made adult re-baptism punishable by drowning.


In yet another of the deadly disputes between "God's servants" :

Zwingli’s alliance of Protestant cantons ( Swiss states ) in 1531
applied an unsuccessful food blockade on the Catholic cantons.

The RC cantons responded with an attack when Zurich was badly prepared
and Zwingli was killed in battle at the age of 47.

Memorial plate on the river wall opposite number 43 Schipfe in Zürich,
in remembrance of Felix Manz and other Anabaptists
executed in early 16th century.


This next section is copied directly from an evangelical website :

"
Cardinal Hosius (1504-1579) was a Roman Catholic prelate who had as his life work
the investigation and suppression of non-Catholic groups.
By Pope Paul IV he was designated one of the three papal presidents of the famous Council of Trent.
Hosius carried on vigorously the work of the counter-reformation.
If anyone in post-reformation times knew the doctrines and history of nonCatholic groups, it was Hosius.

Cardinal Hosius says, "Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented
and cut off with the knife during the past 1,200 years,
they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers"
( Letters Apud Opera, pp.112, 113 ).

Note carefully that this knowledgeable Catholic scholar has spoken
of the vicious persecution Baptists have endured,
that he clearly distinguishes them from the Reformers,
and that he dates them 1,200 years before the Protestant Reformation.

It is also evident that the Baptists were not Protestants because
they were fiercely persecuted by the Protestant Reformers and their followers.

Uncounted thousands of them lost their goods, their lands,
and their lives in these persecutions.


Konred Grebel died in prison in 1526.
Felix Manz was drowned by the authorities at Zurich in 1527.
Noted Baptist leader Baithauser Hubmaier was burned alive at the stake in Vienna March 10, 1528.
Three days later his wife was drowned by being thrown over the Danube bridge with a stone tied to her neck."

From
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer%27s%20Corner/why_baptists_are_not_protestants.htm
- by Dr. Vernon C. Lyons


See also development.htm
Please carefully think through this page : theology.htm



So, if there is a Loving God,
( those hymns are Bible based )
why did He not foresee
( or even just see the beginings of this )

Why not act to correct these evils
inflicted UPON His sincere, dedicated, prayerful, "God guided", followers
BY His sincere, dedicated, prayerful, "God guided" followers ?
??
???





http://www.tentmaker.org/biographies/hansdenck.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Denck
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Manz




this page, and my updates and interesting snippets on Twitter.

Email Bookmark and Share Hover cursor over "SHARE" for 300+ social media options.
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