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Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865):

"My earlier views of the unsoundness
of the Christian scheme of salvation

and the human origin of the scriptures

have become clearer and
stronger with advancing years,

and I see no reason for thinking
that I shall ever change them."





















"To the 'guys on the street' Id say
that Christianity doesn't make sense.



If they say you're not supposed to make sense of it but just believe,
I say that advice doesn't make sense.


...if God exists he created us with
our minds and if that's so
we should use our minds.

If God is a reasonable God then the truth should comport to reason.

In fact, we are asked to love God with all of our minds (the greatest commandment).

So if it doesn't make sense
then there is a real problem for faith.
I cannot do otherwise but to use my mind.

Such a faith should stand up to reason,
so saying it's "not supposed to make sense", makes no sense.

I cannot think otherwise."

"Christianity doesn't make sense..."



John W. Loftus
M.A., M.Div., Th.M.Trinity Evangelical Divinity School,
former evangelical minister, author :

"Why I Became An Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity"

"The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails".

"Why I Am Not a Christian: A Summary of My Case Against Christianity"

"Christianity is Wildly Improbable".

see Links



 

 

 



"No decent parents
would ever say to their children
that 'you must have faith in us,
believe in us
or we will send you
to unending suffering
in an unending hell'".

( Yes, very sensibly,
sensitive, kindly preachers
do not dwell much on this these days
but it was mandatory for
"the great preachers" of the past.)

This willful cruelty
is an inescapable part
of history
and Christian theology.

" Our God was made by men,
sculptured by savages..."











"We can safely conclude :

'God' is very,
very improbable indeed".





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What makes more sense ???



Sadly, inflicting suffering & pain is normal for predatory, carnivorous animals.

Have you seen nature documentaries showing hunting animals chasing down
a weakened, frightened food animal ?
Finally overcome, it is torn at & bitten until it dies.

Some people these days are being careful to prevent pet cats from killing small wildlife & birds.
Cats don't just kill quickly with surgical precision, they like to "play"
with the stuggling wounded, hurt bird or mouse.

Think of sharks, aligators; even the loveable & friendly dolphins have to chase & kill to live.

My wife will change the channel rather than continue to watch this true life drama,
because naturally we are distressed to see suffering.


Now ask yourself :
Is it likely that

A benevolent, kind & loving God DESIGNED
all these creatures which HAVE to inflict pain to eat & live ?

( He "knows when the sparrow falls",
has been seeing all this suffering since life began,
yet He is NOT distressed enough to change these animals fate. )

These creatures thrive when there is plenty
and themselves suffer hunger and death
by starvation when drought kills off prey
and when they are too hurt, old & frail
to catch the only food their bodies can handle.



......

In the Christian tradition,
the problem of evil,
disease,
( I don't have to remind you some sicknesses are very painful, very unfair, very random ),

all the suffering in the world

is "explained" away by "Adam's sin",
"God has given us freewill, people choose evil" and similar superficialities.


( Note that all the evidence we have shows primitive, savage first humans
NOT the original perfect couple depicted in that particular creation myth.
Other cultures imagined their own creation myths - very different to this one.)


Does it really make sense to think that God made predator animals
& condemned grass eaters & smaller fish to a cruel end after "Adam disobeyed" ???

Why be cruel to deer, antelope, and all the rest because of one man ???

What can the natural wolf pack,
the hunting lioness,
my cat tormenting a hurt bird
have to do with "freewill humans choosing evil" ???




......

Lets go back to humans;

does it make sense to think that God changed
the human body after "Adam's disobedience" ???

So that from then on at random some of God's own people, dedicated churchgoers,
whould have ( innocent ) children who die young painfully ???

That some of God's own people, dedicated churchgoers,
have strokes, cancer and all the rest because "freewill humans choosing evil" ???



Does that really make sense???

Couldn't the "ALL-MIGHTY" , "ALL-KNOWING" , "GOD OF LOVE" have done MUCH better???

......

Epicurus wrote:


"Either God wants to abolish evil and cannot,

or He can and does not want to,

or He cannot and does not want to.

 
If He wants to but cannot, He is impotent.

If He can but does not want to, He is wicked.

If He neither can nor wants to, He is both powerless and wicked.

 
If God cannot abolish evil, why trust him to create good?"

 

 

"Christianity doesn't make sense..."

 
The most sense we can make of that original sin story
is if we treat it as as "mythical":

'Yes, if you don't obey the tribal knowledge about what wild plants
are safely edible, bad results can happen.'

'Yes, stay away from snakes, unless you know what you are doing.'

Repeat the story to children to frighten them into blind obedience,
if you can't be bothered to explain your reasons properly.





More abstractly : 'If you choose to do bad, there are consequences.'

We don't need religious baggage
to understand or communicate this.





There is no 'mystery' as to why 'God allows' suffering....

God is not just 'absent' from humanity's suffering,
"waiting for believers to call on Him for consolation & meaning".

The first thing to remember is that:

Primitive cultures made up all the ideas of gods & goddesses,
"He" is a figment of the human imagination,
just as Zeus, Hera, Thor, Odin ( aka Woden ), Krishna, Shiva, Vishnu and all the others are.

Don't forget : ALL of them had devoted followers...some of them still do..............







"Our God was made by men, sculptured by savages who did the best they could.

They made our God somewhat like themselves,
and gave to him their passions, their ideas of right and wrong...

As man advanced
he slowly changed his God
- took a little ferocity from his heart,
and put a little kindness in his eyes.

As man progressed
he obtained a wider view,
extending his intellectual horizon,

and again he changed his God,
making him
as nearly perfect as he could,

and yet this God was patterned
after those who made him........

...As man became more civilised,
as he became merciful,
he began to love justice,
and as his mind expanded his ideal became purer, nobler,
and so his God became more merciful, more loving.

In our day Jehovah has been outgrown.
He is no longer the perfect.
Now ( preachers ) talk, not about Jehovah

( one of the Old Testament names for God - editor ),

but about a God of love, call him the Eternal Father,
and the perpetual friend and providence of man."


It is time to face the facts...



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